{"id":39744,"date":"2018-04-19T15:47:02","date_gmt":"2018-04-19T13:47:02","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/kernbeisser.ch\/glorification-on-the-mountain\/"},"modified":"2024-11-18T20:12:10","modified_gmt":"2024-11-18T18:12:10","slug":"glorification-on-the-mountain","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/kernbeisser.ch\/en\/glorification-on-the-mountain\/","title":{"rendered":"Glorification on the mountain"},"content":{"rendered":"<div class=\"wpb-content-wrapper\"><p>[vc_row][vc_column width=&#8221;1\/1&#8243;][uncode_block id=&#8221;34489&#8243;][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row][vc_column width=&#8221;1\/1&#8243;][vc_column_text uncode_shortcode_id=&#8221;616120&#8243;]<\/p>\n<h3>Dealing with contradictory statements<\/h3>\n<p>When we die, do we live on, or are we &#8220;really dead&#8221;? If we answer this question from the Bible, there is a clear and unambiguous picture. He who dies is dead and no longer lives. There is life again only through resurrection. Thus, the biblically based hope for the dead lies not in a woolly understanding of heaven, but in a <a href=\"https:\/\/kernbeisser.ch\/leben-tod-und-auferstehung\/\">resurrection<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>However, many traditions see it differently. Other biblical passages are then used to justify this, &#8220;contradicting&#8221;, so to speak, the direct testimony of Scripture concerning the state of the dead. Thus, tradition was to be proved right over the direct testimony of the Bible. There is a small selection of biblical passages quoted on this. Whoever wants to make a well-founded doctrinal statement in this environment must also devote himself to these biblical passages. Not only should the biblical passages that speak in <em>favor of<\/em> a particular view be studied, but so should the biblical passages that speak <em>against<\/em> such a view. Such open Bible study is at the same time a touchstone for our understanding.<\/p>\n<p>Among the various biblical passages there is also the story of the glorification on the mountain. There some disciples see Jesus together with Moses and Elijah, both of whom would have died long ago. This story is therefore often used to undermine the biblical testimony &#8220;death = death&#8221; and to propagate a &#8220;life in death&#8221; instead.<\/p>\n<p>Let us therefore take a closer look at this biblical passage (Mt 17:1-9).[\/vc_column_text][vc_column_text uncode_shortcode_id=&#8221;172614&#8243;]<\/p>\n<h3>The glorification on the mountain<\/h3>\n<p>The traditional interpretation is as follows: The appearance of Moses and Elijah on the mountain (Tavor?) is cited as proof that the dead (Moses and Elijah) are alive in death. So would be the rest of the people.<\/p>\n<p>This argument can be countered as follows: This is a vision, not a real occurrence. The reason for this is as follows: Jesus describes this experience in the following words: <em>&#8220;And when they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying: Tell no one about this <strong>appearance<\/strong> until the Son of Man has risen from the dead.&#8221;<\/em> (Mt 17:9). Jesus calls it an <em>&#8220;apparition.&#8221;<\/em><\/p>\n<p>What is an apparition?The Greek word <em>&#8220;horama&#8221;<\/em> (Greek <em>horama<\/em>, from <em>horao<\/em> = to see) used here occurs in the New Testament in the following places: Mt 17:9, Acts 7:31, Acts 9:10,12, Acts 10:3,17,19, Acts 11:5, Acts 12:9, Acts 16:9,10, Acts 18:9. The meaning of the word and its use can be looked up and discerned in the above passages.<\/p>\n<p>There is another word in the New Testament which is translated as <em>&#8220;appearance&#8221;<\/em>, namely <em>&#8220;optasia&#8221;<\/em> (Greek <em>optasia<\/em>, from <em>optimai<\/em> = to see), which occurs in the following places: Luke 1:22, Luke 24:23, Acts 26:19, 2 Corinthians 12:1. So what is the difference between &#8220;horama&#8221; and &#8220;optasia&#8221;?[\/vc_column_text][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row row_height_percent=&#8221;0&#8243; back_color=&#8221;color-957315&#8243; overlay_alpha=&#8221;50&#8243; gutter_size=&#8221;3&#8243; column_width_percent=&#8221;100&#8243; shift_y=&#8221;0&#8243; z_index=&#8221;0&#8243; uncode_shortcode_id=&#8221;130540&#8243; back_color_type=&#8221;uncode-palette&#8221;][vc_column width=&#8221;1\/1&#8243;][vc_column_text uncode_shortcode_id=&#8221;188433&#8243;]<\/p>\n<h3>Horama<\/h3>\n<p>In Acts 12:9 we read that Peter thought he saw a <em>&#8220;horama&#8221;,<\/em> but it was real. So a <em>&#8220;horama&#8221;<\/em> is something <strong>unreal.<\/strong> It is a <strong>vision<\/strong> that does not really exist in reality.<\/p>\n<h3>Optasia<\/h3>\n<p>In Acts 26:19, Paul refers to the &#8220;optasia&#8221; that he saw on the road to Damascus. He refers to the description in Acts 9, where Jesus appeared to him in such a bright light that he went blind for a few days (Acts 9:3, 8, 9). What happened had an <em>immediate, concrete effect<\/em> on him. Paul had seen Christ after the resurrection, as had hundreds of other people (1 Corinthians 15:3-8). Everything took place for real. An &#8220;optasia&#8221; means reality.[\/vc_column_text][\/vc_column][\/vc_row][vc_row][vc_column width=&#8221;1\/1&#8243;][vc_column_text uncode_shortcode_id=&#8221;105126&#8243;]<\/p>\n<h3>A prophetic vision<\/h3>\n<p>The glorification on the mountain, wherein Peter, James and John saw Jesus talking to Moses and Elijah, was according to Jesus <em>horama<\/em>, and therefore a vision. It was a <em>prophetic outlook to the messianic kingdom,<\/em> because both Moses and Elijah were forerunners to it. Besides, there were quite extraordinary stories just on the death of these two. Moses was buried by God himself (cf. Deut. 34:5-7) and Elijah went to heaven in a fiery chariot with fiery horses (2 Kings 11:11). This is not a typical pattern for people who die.<\/p>\n<p>So this Bible passage cannot be used to establish a life &#8220;in&#8221; death. The Bible passage is thus in agreement with the rest of Scripture that dead people are really dead, and not alive.[\/vc_column_text][vc_empty_space empty_h=&#8221;2&#8243;][\/vc_column][\/vc_row]<\/p>\n<\/div><div class=\"pld-like-dislike-wrap pld-template-1\">\r\n    <div class=\"pld-like-wrap  pld-common-wrap\">\r\n    <a href=\"javascript:void(0)\" class=\"pld-like-trigger pld-like-dislike-trigger  \" title=\"\" data-post-id=\"39744\" data-trigger-type=\"like\" data-restriction=\"cookie\" data-already-liked=\"0\">\r\n                        <i class=\"fas fa-thumbs-up\"><\/i>\r\n                <\/a>\r\n    <span class=\"pld-like-count-wrap pld-count-wrap\">0    <\/span>\r\n<\/div><div class=\"pld-dislike-wrap  pld-common-wrap\">\r\n    <a href=\"javascript:void(0)\" class=\"pld-dislike-trigger pld-like-dislike-trigger  \" title=\"\" data-post-id=\"39744\" data-trigger-type=\"dislike\" data-restriction=\"cookie\" data-already-liked=\"0\">\r\n                        <i class=\"fas fa-thumbs-down\"><\/i>\r\n                <\/a>\r\n    <span class=\"pld-dislike-count-wrap pld-count-wrap\">0<\/span>\r\n<\/div><\/div>","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Mt 17,9 The glorification on the mountain &#8211; vision or reality?<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":5,"featured_media":36107,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[552,630],"tags":[631],"class_list":["post-39744","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible-texts-interpreted","category-death-and-resurrection","tag-death-and-resurrection"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v28.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/product\/yoast-seo-wordpress\/ -->\n<title>Glorification on the mountain &#8226; Kernbeisser<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/kernbeisser.ch\/en\/glorification-on-the-mountain\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Glorification on the mountain &#8226; 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